We spoke with U Win Tin before, shortly after his release in November 2009. It was quite a challenge to get hold of him by telephone at the time: I was given several telephone numbers and was told to dial different numbers. Not much has changed in Burma, it seems…

This time, it turned out that his home phone numbers were closed down by the authorities. A way to shut up an old man who cannot stop being active for the freedom of his people?

Saya Gyi, ne kaun de la? How are you doing and how is your health?

‘Oh, not so bad..I have to stay at home most of the time though.’

Did you know when you were in prison that many people and organisations were active for you?

‘Yes I know, of course, I got some information about the situation outside at the time.’

Last time we spoke, you told me about your time in The Netherlands. Do you still have memories of that time?

‘Yes, I spoke about that. I lived there in the 1950s, it’s a long time ago, you see. I got memories, but anyhow, it’s a long time ago and my memories are fading and although I got such memories from time to time, they are not very fresh and very clear..
I do not speak the Dutch language. At the time, I did of course. I wrote some articles and newsletters in Dutch. But nowadays, I almost forgot everything. It’s a long time ago and I have no chance to use the language here, so I forgot almost everything.’

Can you tell me something about things that happened in your life when you were 13 years of age?

‘Well you see, I can not remember well, but at that age, some people are asked to be initiated as a novice in the Buddhist order here. So at the time, I was young and it was wartime so there was a lot of bombing, so of course I remember that. I found a refuge in the order, not in a very common way but I found a refuge in the order because the monastery was out of town and it was quite free from the bombing and all that stuff.
These are the things I remember. I stayed in the order for about a month – not a real month, but a full month like we call it a ‘waa‘, which is a time specification (Buddhist month of Lent, BV). So I found it and it was quite a new life. I had been studying at a normal school, but when I was initiated in the order I had to learn some Buddhist literature and teaching. All these things I was learning were new to me. So I found it like a new life, a new way of life.

‘I lived with my family, my grandmother and my father and others at the time. I was born in a town about 100 miles away from Rangoon. I was brought up in Rangoon and went to school there when I was young. Then when the war broke out, I had to go to another village, which was a new place for me. There I could go to school again, but the schools there were not as liberal at the time. So I came down from time to time. That is one thing. Another thing is that there was a lot going on at that time. Even in a small town. Our small town was on the railroad and on the motorway. So there was a lot of coming and going of trains and cars. And also the Japanese were going up and down the country. There were a lot of bombings. So we had to move from time to time, even from the small towns to the small villages. And we had to live here and there.

There were English and American airplanes checking out the pagodas. Because pagodas are visible from the sky. And our monasteries are situated close to the pagodas. So we found and moved to a new place, and this was a refuge. So that’s all when I was 13 years old..’

What is your opinion on the recent prisoner release? Some governments may think this signals real change, what do you think about this?

‘No, I do not think so. Because there are still at least 1,000 political prisoners left in jail. The release included all kinds of prisoners, also criminals and not only the political prisoners. They released about 200 political prisoners. For us, this is not enough. So we are not satisfied about this release indeed. But we are still hoping for another release. Up until now, there really has been no release at all..’

On 18th November, the NLD will meet to discuss a possible participation in future elections.

‘We will not be speaking about the future, but on the 18 November there is a meeting of the Central Executive members of the NLD. They are going to decide whether the party is going to re-register or whether the party is going to go into election.’

What is to be done for the NLD to be able to participate in an election?

‘Well, that depends on that meeting on 18 November. If that meeting decides that first, the party is going to be registered, that is one. And another thing is, that the party is going to go for the voting and the election. Then you can say that the party is on the road for election and vote to Parliament.’

Do you see a difference between U Thein Sein’s and U Than Shwe’s government?

‘Well, of course, you see, but I can not really see, I am not in a position to do it. To say such kind of a thing, because they are the same group. They are the same clique. Two times he is the chief, chief of the military group at the time and now chief of the government. U Thein Sein is one of the members of the group.  U Thein Sein was the Prime Minister of the government headed by Than Shwe, so really I cannot say that there is a very different attitude among them. They are always the same group, so I can not say exactly.. But anyhow, the style of leading the political situation outside the government grounds to pack for U Thein Sein projecting a different way.’

Recently president Thein Sein announced that he welcomes back exiles from different organisations who have left Burma. Do you think that Burma is safe enough for Burmese exiles to return home?

‘Well, I think so but many of the older people who went into exile are not happy there. In a foreign country some of them are not happy because not all of them are educated persons or well-trained persons. Some of them can not find good work, so they found it difficult in that foreign land. Some of them would be happy to come back. That is one group. Another group is the educated persons who cannot find work or the work they would like to have. What they did in the foreign country is not actually the kind of work they would like to do in their own country. So these people would like to come back, too. But now the invitation is from the mouth of U Thein Sein and not in the form of a formal way. There is no notification or no law. There needs to be some sort of guarantee, so that they can come back, easily and safely.’

Recently the government has set up the national human rights commission which it says will safeguard the fundamental rights of its citizens. What do you think about this commission?

‘This commission is not thought of very well here. They founded such a thing a long time ago. For instance during Than Shwe’s government, there were some human rights commissions, all run by the Home Minister. But at the time, all the violations of human rights were also done by the Home Ministry. Then the government formed a human rights commission headed by the Home Minister. It’s a very funny thing and all the people are not taking it seriously, such a commission. It’s really no news at all. This commission again, there are some very famous ambassadors and government officers on it. But most of these people at some time, served in Than Shwe’s government by acting as ambassadors, they went to foreign countries and explained about Than Shwe’s government. They portrayed the government.’

U Thant Myint (historian, former UN official) said in his recent article “In Myanmar, seize the moment” in the New York Times of 4 October, the following:
“Myanmar,…., is at its most important political watershed since the establishment of army rule in 1962. … President Obama should publicly support the changes taking place, and back up those words with actions to end the country’s isolation, before hard-liners who oppose reform are able to push back.”
Do you agree and who do you think does he refer to when he says “hardliners who oppose reform”?

‘Oh no, I think such kind of statements are not really true. Because if you look at the government, you can find that such kind of statements are not true at all. If you go to the countryside, for instance, people are still facing many violations of their human rights. Also on the ethnic side, there are violations and there is fighting still. So, such statements are not really true. The only change there is to be seen, is at the highest levels, like the political level. So I do not think this is true at all. As a politician I do not support such kind of a statement. Obama should not come and behave as a hero and save the country and support the military.He should not do it.’

And whom does he mean when he speaks about hardliners?

‘I don’t know who Thant Myint means by hardliners.. We wondered too, you see, haha. We cannot say exactly what he means of course. But there are some hardliners too. They got a reason and tradition on their part. For the hardliners, they can point out that there are many political prisoners. Up till now they have released about 200 and there are some 1,000 political prisoners left inside the jails all over the country. Not only in the southern tip of Burma, but also in the far north, like in Kachin State. There are many. Everywhere. The farmers are using there livelihood and so on, and if you go to the countryside, and even in Rangoon, and go to the poorer areas, you find poor people who are facing many violations everywhere. There is no change at all. Not at all. The only changes are in the upper echelons, like in the Parliament and in the government. And of course, they also met with Daw Aung San Suu Kyi a few times.

You wrote a book about your time in prison. I think many foreigners would like to read this book. Is there any chance a translation in English will come?

‘I am sorry to say, I do not think there is a chance, because I think I cannot find people who would like to help translating it. I cannot do it myself, because my English is not very good and my writing in Burmese is rather slow..And besides, …how do I put it… the writing in Burmese style is rather complicated, it is not easy to translate into English. So I think Burmese people outside of the country can not do it, because most of these people are not very well versed in the Burmese and English language, so it will not be easy I think.’

Thank you very much, Saya Gyi. Saga pyaw lo kaun ba deh, I enjoyed talking to you and wish you all the best.